Internet speeds

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Internet speeds

Postby Neill on Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:13 pm

Teiana wrote (in another thread)
I'd love a proper 1Mbps service! we're lucky if we manage .5! They talk about people struggling to get speeds over 5Mbps, well that would be such a luxury!

Unfortunately what is normal and what is luxury depends on the network topology of where you live.
Most Internet services are still based on the old copper telephone lines and these were not built to carry high data rates but rather a voice conversation.

... why should some people get 40Mbps when others can't even get 1? It doesn't make sense, and it's not fair!

Because some people have a new fiber glass cable running right in to the building - 1Gbit/s no problem
or a directional radio connection - the system my company offer with up to 65Mbit/s
or a coaxial cable - 30 Mbit/s
while others are at the end of a long copper wire - 0.5-1Mbit/s

What on earth does someone with a 39Mbps service do with the extra 1Mbps, if they get 40?

They don't even notice it. Above about 15Mbit/s to a home, it is pretty much irrelevant who is doing what. We have 20Mbit/s and four people "on line". No problem.

I seriously don't get why they don't cap the speeds people can get to make it fair so everyone

Because if you cap the person with a good connection, this won't help those at the end of the copper line.

Hope all that makes sense
Neill
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Re: Internet speeds

Postby rutty on Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:46 pm

Re: capping speeds

Quite a few ISPs do a bit of "bandwidth shaping" at busy periods so that bandwidth hogs don't ruin it for the majority. However, there's only so much capacity and everyone can have periods of reduced performance due to the some optimist contention ratios (numbers of people sharing the same pipe).

Your Internet speeds will get slower the further you are from your exchange if you're still using the old system. Most people in cities will benefit from FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) where some nice shiny fibre optics has been terminated in a box near your street. It makes the short bit of copper to your house so much faster (the less copper in the journey for your bits and bites the better).

If you live in rural areas, well, things are going to be significantly slower, unless someone has set up a microwave link or something. Nobody is going to be running any fibre optics to service a handful of people - it's not cost efficient.

I used to work for a telecoms company (Marconi) and we were told back in 2000 that 80% of a network's cost is in the cabling. Just the cables! So, they were trying everything they could to fit as much data down the same cables. They still are.
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Re: Internet speeds

Postby Dave H on Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:17 am

It is not the cost of the cable that is the problem but the associated civil work of digging the trench to put the cable in and reinstating the road afterwards. These costs form a very significant part of the cabling costs. Some of the operators are trying to find other ducts they can insert their cables into as a means of reducing the cost. Another option is to put the cables overhead on poles and the DCMS has just held a public consultation on some aspects of this. It will be interesting to see what action DCMS proposes.

In the Milton Keynes area there is a special problem in that BT used aluminium ratherthan copper in their network. It may be cheaper but it gives much lower DSL speeds.
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Re: Internet speeds

Postby Neill on Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:55 am

Hi Dave,
Hi Rutty,

I agree with everything you write.
It is the cost of digging the cable in to the ground that makes glass fiber in to the communities so expensive.
This is why my company uses directional radio.
We can cover a 50km link without worrying about who owns what in between.
A directional radio link moves less data than glass fiber but do you really need 1Gbit/s in a small village?

I am also planning on using directional radio in the Rupununi
http://oranjbox.pbworks.com/w/page/40433197/Proposal
and would welcome your comments on this.

Have fun
Neill
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Re: Internet speeds

Postby rutty on Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:05 pm

Dave H wrote:It is not the cost of the cable that is the problem but the associated civil work of digging the trench to put the cable in and reinstating the road afterwards. These costs form a very significant part of the cabling costs. Some of the operators are trying to find other ducts they can insert their cables into as a means of reducing the cost. Another option is to put the cables overhead on poles and the DCMS has just held a public consultation on some aspects of this. It will be interesting to see what action DCMS proposes.

In the Milton Keynes area there is a special problem in that BT used aluminium ratherthan copper in their network. It may be cheaper but it gives much lower DSL speeds.


Thanks Dave, yes that's what I meant rather than what I actually typed (must try harder..)

I guess LTE will sort some of this out but we'll see
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Re: Internet speeds

Postby rutty on Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:11 pm

Neill wrote:Hi Dave,
Hi Rutty,

I agree with everything you write.
It is the cost of digging the cable in to the ground that makes glass fiber in to the communities so expensive.
This is why my company uses directional radio.
We can cover a 50km link without worrying about who owns what in between.
A directional radio link moves less data than glass fiber but do you really need 1Gbit/s in a small village?

I am also planning on using directional radio in the Rupununi
http://oranjbox.pbworks.com/w/page/40433197/Proposal
and would welcome your comments on this.

Have fun
Neill


Hi Neill,

When Ericsson took over Marconi I ended up working in the test lab for a piece of kit that was getting integrated into their backhaul offering - an Ethernet/Radio hybrid thing. I was more involved with testing the software management of the traffic over this kit but I did get some hands on. You can get quite a bit of bandwidth over these, although nothing like you can over fibre.

We were all made redundant, though, and development went overseas. I also don't work in telecoms anymore but I suspect a product like that would be right up your street. Will have a read

Dave
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Re: Internet speeds

Postby rutty on Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:16 pm

These are Ericsson's microwave offerings:

http://www.ericsson.com/ourportfolio/pr ... e-networks

I can't really give you an honest opinion on whether they'd be good for you or not. I was never a network designer (although a desire to head in that direction was what led me to start my OU degree in the first place!). I worked with the Minilink TN which integrated with our SDH optical network kit but they may well have lower cost stuff too.

Regards

Dave
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Re: Internet speeds

Postby Neill on Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:22 pm

Hello Rutty,

Thanks for the link.

We currently use other equipment which has the advantage that it works in a license free band that is still relatively clean.
We are however starting to look at the licensed equipment as the customer base grows and we have to move more traffic.

I think it will be some time before we need Gbit/s links in the Rupununi.

Neill
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Re: Internet speeds

Postby Dave H on Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:15 am

The documents are looking good. Not really in response to your question but I wonder that as the project is supposed to carry on afterr the research phase there should be more on governance and the social organisations.

The CTO have recently appointed a new CEO, Prof Tim Unwin, and he has been involved with various ICT projects in developing countries so I wonder if it might be appropriate to make contact.
I am also convinced that the ITU must know of sme relevant case studies and I feel that contact should be made with their Development sector.
I also wonder if any of the UK community wireless broadband projects could provide any useful information
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Re: Internet speeds

Postby Andrea on Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:20 am

Dave H wrote:The CTO have recently appointed a new CEO, Prof Tim Unwin, and he has been involved with various ICT projects in developing countries so I wonder if it might be appropriate to make contact.


Small world. .... his office used to be next to my wife's. Could be Neill's external examiner for his Ph.D. ;)

But you've got a valid point with regards to governance. How can one create a governance system based on Amerindian worldviews, and taking into account the various logistic, capacity, health, etc etc limitations to create something that is viable?

Neill's big challenge is coming up with the appropriate design process for creating such a system out of nothing.
esse sequitur operari
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